Hunter Guide- Rise of Isengard edition

[Marithil]

As promised here is the new Hunter guide, Rise of Isengard edition
First off let me state that no matter what you read on the forums the hunter IS in a good spot. We are DPSing like we should and just about every run I have been in hunters have been turning heads with the amount of DPS they can shovel out.

Lets explore the new/changed skills first.

Stance: Strength: Removed the threat and Power use penalties.
Stance: Precision: Remove the penalty to target’s Block/Parry/Evade ratings. This stance will now add 1 Focus every 5 seconds.
Stance: Endurance: Added Increase Parry chance +5%.
Skill: Beneath Care renamed to Improved Beneath Notice.
Skill: Set Snare: This bleed will now stack from multiple Hunters.
Skill: Scourging Blow: Removed the bonus Critical Chance of the base skill. Increased the damage when the "Barbed Arrow" bleed is removed.
Skill: Press Onwards: The induction has been reduced to 4 seconds. Induction is no longer canceled by damage but is knocked back normally.
Skill: Needful Haste: Reduced the duration to 15 seconds. Reduced the Cooldown to 1m 30s. This skill is now usable while moving and is slightly faster.
Skill: Blood Arrow: Now useable while moving.
New Skill: Split Shot: 1.5 second induction skill. Grants 1 Focus. 10 second cooldown. This skill will attack the target plus one additional target nearby.
New Skill: Improved Focus: This skill will now put a short duration buff on you that grants +25% critical hit chance and +25% critical damage
New Skill: Improved Penetrating Shot: Removed the cooldown.
New Skill: Improved Strength of the Earth: This skill will now add Morale over time as well as Power. The skill is no longer interruptible on damage.
New Skill: Improved Scourging Blow: A successful use of this skill makes your next "Barbed Arrow" have no induction time.
New Skill: Improved Quick Shot: Gains a 30% chance to generate an additional point of Focus. Stacks with the Huntsman trait set bonus to 50%

I am not going to go into detail about each and every one of these, however, I will say the Improved pen shot is almost too powerful. Chaining up to 5 (with lucky crits and focus build) in a row is crazy fun. The Scourging blow improvement is very nice, especially with the Barbed Fury trait on. However it does tend to rack up the power costs. The tooltip in game doesn't show a changes to Improved Quick Shot, but it does work in game as read here. Improved Focus is deadly with any combo of either starting off the fight by chainning pen shots, or using Swift Bow/Barbed Arrow/Heartseeker. Play around with what opening combo you like best. I know I still haven't come to a solid conclusion about which is best, because they are all so good. Split Shot is a fun, but limited attack. The AoE range needs some work, but if your Rain of Arrows doesn't crit, it's a nice back up to see if you can get a crit. Hunters Art is a bit of a difficult skill to use. I have noticed that I tend to stance dance when I need certain buffs at certain times. If I need extra DPS, punch it into S:S and hit it, get back into S:P when possible. If I need power, I do the same with S:E. It gives the hunter a few options for self sustainment, which if you have followed my guides, I am all about.


Lets look at all of the trait changes to the hunter:

Trait: Strong Draw: Changed to increase the damage of "Penetrating Shot" and "Blood Arrow" by +10%.
Trait: Graceful Draw: Removed from the game.
Trait: Spring Loaded Traps: Replaces Graceful Draw. This trait adds an effect to "Set Trap" that will increase all damage done to the target for 10 seconds.
Trait: Heightened Senses: Adds -10% power usage.
Traits: Heart of the Bard: Changed to now reduce the active cooldown of "Heart-seeker" by 20 seconds for each use of "Bard’s Arrow."
Trait: Stealthy Shot: Now also adds -10% threat generation.
Trait: Swift Recovery: Changed to "Needful Haste" cooldown reduced -30 seconds.
Trait: Enduring Precision – Removed from the game, changed into Earthborn.
Trait: Earthborn: Replaces Enduring Precision. This skill adds +20% to the morale and power restore of "Strength of the Earth." "Strength of the Earth" will also now generate 1 Focus per second.
Trait: Arrow Storm: Changed to scoring a Critical Hit on "Rain of Arrows" will reset the cooldown of "Rain of Arrows" and "Split Shot."
Trait: Resolute Aim: Removed the restriction on working with "Press Onward."
Trait: Sturdy Traps: Now also adds +25% trap damage
Trait: Strong Intimidations: Add -5% chance for Fear skills to be resisted.
Traits: Improved Fleetness: Removed the -10% attack speed bonus. Add +1 Focus every 5 seconds.

I am only going to go over in detail a few of these, as I believe most of the changes speak for themselves. First, Earthborn. In group play I am actually quite fond of this, especially with the legacy that ups the morale regen of Strength of the Earth. If you add that all together is is about an 800 point morale heal, and 600 point power heal. Not a ton, but enough to save you in a tight spot, or get you that extra needed focus in-combat, with a bit of a power boost to use it with.
Next, Strong Draw. Simple, never remove this trait.
Arrow Storm. This in combination with Hail of Arrows is down right deadly in group play. Hail of Arrows increasing the crit chance of Rain of Arrows while Arrow Storm resets the CD of RoI and Split Shot. If you have Deadly Precision on (which you should also never remove) you have a self sustaining ranged AoE that is doing and extra 25% crit multiplier. Now, combine all of that with the +AoE target legacy, and now you have many dead little pale folk at your feet in your School and Library runs. This may be my favorite change to the hunter, which sadly means it's probably looking at the nerf bat.
Lastly, another one of my favorite changes, Improved Fleetness. It is very sad they removed the speed bonus, but the extra focus every 5 seconds is very nice. While it is true that all the focus bonus does is repay the focus cost of using it, if you start the fight out by using that before you enter combat, then hitting the Improved Focus skill, thereby regenerating your focus back, while giving yourself a huge damage bonus. You can have more focus than you can use if you keep it running. Now, combine all that with the new Improved Quick Shot, and you are a focus generating machine.

Okay, now that we have gotten through changes to the class lets delve into the new fundamental changes. Now that the stat caps have been removed and stat priorities have been established on a class basis there are some major stat redistribution that needs to be done. Agility is our primary stat, as it has always been. However now it adds to our melee offense, as well as our ranged offense. I have pumped my agility to over 1500 already, and I have noticed a couple things. One, there is diminishing returns to my ranged crit at about 1000 agi. Two, I have not seen any DR to my Ranged Offense from agility. So, the more you put into agility, the more ranged damage you will have. Seems simple enough. There needs to be a balance though. Morale and power pools are every bit as vital as DPS output.
Now to the real meat of the guide. I ran some fairly extensive testing on the dummies in Galtrev (thank you Turbine) and found some interesting results. I ran DPS testing on the Bowmaster line and the Huntsman line. I ran four sessions for Bowmaster, two for running it in S:P and two in S:S, and two sessions for Huntsman both in S:P. All the testing sessions stopped when I ran out of power.

Personal Stats
1562 agility, 443 Vitality, 451 Fate, 6330 Morale, 3150 Power

On all sessions I used Burn Hot, Fleetness, and Needful Haste, then hit Focus before entering combat.

Bowmaster Sessions

Traits:
Bowmaster traits
Barabed Arrow, Swift and True, Critical Eye, Merciful Shot, Fast Draw
Huntsman Traits
Strong Draw, Deadly Precision
Legendary
Cool Burn

1st session- S:P

Totals- 990.0 DPS/61202 DMG Fight Time- 1m 10s

Notes:
Top three DPS attacks
Pen Shot- 333.7, Barbed Arrow- 198.4, Swift Bow 179.8

2nd session- S:P

Totals- 1020.8 DPS/64935 DMG Fight Time- 1m 4s

Notes:
Top three DPS attacks
Pen Shot 324.3, Auto Melee Attack 156.6, Blood Arrow 127.3 (2 crits 3564/2390)
Heartseeker 2966

1st session- S:S

Totals- 1089.9 DPS/74023 DMG Fight Time- 1m 8s

Notes
Pen Shot 304.9, Swift Bow 219.2, Melee Attack 136.2
Heartseeker 6700

2nd session- S:S

Totals- 865.8/58373 Fight TIme- 1m 8s

Notes
Swift Bow 213.6, Pen Shot 196.8, Melee Attack 124.8
Heartseeker 3160

That concludes the Bowmaster trait set DPS calculations. A few things I noticed are that Pen Shot is the most consistent attack we have, followed by what I believe is Barbed Arrow. Even though you don't see it on this as evident on the chart, I got some unlucky resists on the barbed arrow bleed effect. You can see that S:S has a big difference in DPS. The reason I believe is that Heartseeker crit, and the Pen Shot difference.

Huntsman sessions

Special notes- Just like above I used all my CDs just before entering combat, however, I was able to to use Fleetness three times during the course of combat, and Needful Haste twice, keeping my DPS more consistent.

Traits:

Bowmaster
Barbed Arrow, Critical Eye
Huntsman
Strong Draw, Deadly Presicion, Resoulte Aim, Deep Concentration, Swift Recovery

Legendary
Improved Fleetness

1st session S:P

Totals 933.1 DPS/74289 DMG Fight Time- 1m 20s

Notes
Pen Shot 324.8, Melee Attack 218.0, Barbed Arrow 111.3
Heartseeker 5612

2nd session S:P

Totals 872.7 DPS/70717 Fight Time- 1m 21s

Notes
Pen Shot 311.5, Melee Attack, 145.2, Swift Bow 101.2
Heartseeker 2407

That concludes my testing for Huntsman. I noticed that my numbers all around were much more consistent, I was able to use a wider rotation, and reuse my cooldowns. If i didn't reuses my CDs then I am sure I could have stayed in the fight longer, but I chose to normalize my DPS at the cost of power. With Deep Concentration traited I was able to gain a bit of extra power, which was quite helpful.
In conclusion I am still a bigger fan of the consistency, maneuverability and broader skill rotation available with The Huntsman line. Take what you will from the data, and please ask any questions you have. There is some information I didn't put in this guide due to it's length, but if you require any more information I am more than happy to give it.

If you need info about relics or legacies, they haven't changed much. You can refer back to my older guide (http://allshallfade.guildlaunch.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6645994&gid=17132&gid=17132) to see any info about them. The only thing I would add is that some of the legacies have become more useful with that changes, but remember that they are only as useful as you make them with your trait system. Keep any eye on both the see what you feel is the best match for your personal play style.

[Merowin]

Hi Marithil,

I don't have a hunter, but I am going to ask anyway. One minute of sustained damage seems short to me. What is your take on ICPR? A lot of gear in Isengard now has ICPR on it, and you can also get a lot of relics with ICPR, such as:

True Setting of the Ages (111 ICPR)
True Gem of the Encircling Seas (126 ICPR)
Mysterious Rune of Quickening (118 ICPR)

Those are the relics I have on Merowin (my burglar), and I have 1,600 ICPR without buffs. I still run out of power, but not as fast as I used to.

Also about the DPS parses on the practice dummies in Galtrev. They reset every 20s or so, removing all dots and dropping you out of combat, will that affect your damage parses? I have given up trying to use them on Merowin because of that.

[Merowin]

Another question, since I'm curious. The most important thing when you want to maximize DPS on a burglar is to use the right combination of melee and fast melee attacks. On the burglar the fast attacks are special attacks, such as your critical hit response attacks and tricks. Do hunters also have ranged and fast ranged attacks? It will say it in the tooltip of the skill, if it is a fast skill.

[Plaidflower]

Thanks for posting this!

[Marithil]

My ICPR sits roughly at 900, maybe a little below that now. If I were to use this rotation on a boss, or any high morale mob Guards would hate me, and I'd get kicked out of groups for terrible aggro management. Lets use the the new Draigoch fight as an example. During the paw fight phase it doesn't matter how much DPS you throw at it because aggro isn't a problem due it it's only attack being a group dispersive damage move. So I can just go all out. My parses against the paws routinely hit the 800-900 DPS ranges. I sometime stance dance into S:E to get a 50-100 ICPR buff for 30 seconds, but that hardly diminishes my output. Also hunters have a great number of ways to gain power back themselves with skills, and being properly traited. I have never had power problems in the Draigoch fight, and I only ever run into problems when running from fight to fight without stopping at least 3 times. Even then, I just hit a skill, gain some power back, do a few Hunters Art tricks, and *Presto* I am at half power, with only losing about 100 DPS from my total.

The reason the fights are so short were due to me popping ever CD when it came up, starting off with all my CDs blown and doing a non-stop, high power usage rotation that was only mitigated my the occasional Blood Arrow that draws from morale rather than power. So you have to look at the total damage output for the minuet. In a normal group fight, I stay anywhere from 700-900 DPS and won't run out of power for at least 5 minuets, and if I just use skills like Intent Concentration which is an 800 point power heal, CD 2min, it usually keeps me at an even level of power. At needs end, I'll pop a power pot, or use SotE for a 600 power heal, or Press Onward for about a 2500 point power heal.

As for your other questions, I do use some of the ICPR runes, but not all of them, or I would be sacrificing to much in other areas. And as for our Fast skills, no. Our ranged attacks are all the same, however some of our melee skills, and other hunter skills are fast, or even immediate. With a hunter, you just need to find a rotation that flows very well from skill to skill. i.e. SB>PS>PS>BA>PS>ScourgingBlow>PS>BA>BLA>QS>PS>PS>QS>PS. What you don't want to have to do is use two induction attacks right next to each other, because there will be almost a second of dead space between the first skill ending, and the next skill starting. If you stack an Induction then a Focus attack, it seamlessly flows from attack to the next. With practice you develop your favorite, or highest DPS output rotation. When short on power you simply change the rotation slightly, or use back up skills.

About the dummies dropping combat: Yes, I did have slight problems with those. When they would drop, it would not restart my fight according to Combat Analysis, it would however wipe my BA bleed, which seriously diminished the look of that attack. I think very highly of Barbed Arrow, even though you don't see it on the parses much. It is routinely my 2nd most damaging skill in actual fights.

Thank you everyone for reading and discussing. Keep the questions coming and I will keep answering! You are all awesome.

[Merowin]

A comment about agro when fighting Draigoch's claws. Agro actually works like normal and the person with agro will take more damage than everyone else. A lot of the damage is distributed to the entire felkowship, but the person with agro still takes the biggest hit. I can really notice that if I pull and hold agro on one of the claws. So as a healer you can tell who will take the biggest hit by looking at the claws target. I have never seen anyone use a tank on the claws, but it would be one way to make healing the DPS group much easier. It could be useful for the third phase.

[Marithil]

Bump

So people who have been asking me questions can readily see this thread on the front page.

[Amalthalion]

Have you made any changes to your legacies?

With the Changes to some of the legacies and the changes to 'defenses' I have been looking at my legacies and made a couple of changes to them to fall in line withthe changes.

Also what do you think should be good target figures for Finese and Physical Matery?

Do you know of anywhere that has a good way to balance Morale vs Amour vs Mitigations vs Evade/Parry/Block?

Any thoughs?

[Marithil]

Amalthalion wrote:

Have you made any changes to your legacies? With the Changes to some of the legacies and the changes to 'defenses' I have been looking at my legacies and made a couple of changes to them to fall in line withthe changes. Also what do you think should be good target figures for Finese and Physical Matery? Do you know of anywhere that has a good way to balance Morale vs Amour vs Mitigations vs Evade/Parry/Block? Any thoughs?

I tend to switch legacies around on my weapons. The few that stay constant are:

Bow

Induction Crit multi.
Focus Crit multi.
Barbed Arrow Bleed.
Focus Bow Power Cost.

Melee

Needful Haste Duration.
Critical Mag. in Precision.
Agile Rejoinder Heal.
Swift Stroke Parry/Evade.

Legacies I switch around:

Bow

Quickshot Crit Chance
Burn Hot
HS damage
Focus bow Threat

Melee

Improved Strength Of Earth Morale Regen
Area of Effect Skills Maximum Targets
Traited Intent Concentration Power bonus

I have a few of the legacy scrolls that I switch around for any given situation. I don't switch often, however, I do switch often enough to have a back stock of scrolls. I used to run the ranged evade legacy, but found it did little for my survivability. The main goal of my legacies on my bow it to enhance my overall DPS output, and keep my focus penalties to a minimum. As you know Hunters now have a cooldown-less Penetrating Shot. I spec'd my bow to give me to best overall benefit to cost ratio when chaining Pen. Shots together. Also, with the trait set for Rain of Arrows, making it more or less cooldown-less, this legacy setup is for chaining those as well. (my record is 19 in a row, if you scan the official forums you'll see that players are getting 25-30 RoA in a row. That is a TON of damage)

My defense is not where I want it just yet. Balancing survivability and DPS is tough these days. My advise on that end is to make sure you don't go over the top with the agility and remained focused on having a balanced class. You can have 24k (Ranged) Physical Mastery, but good luck getting 6000 morale unbuffed. Vitality is still very important to Hunters. High damage output is great, but you need to make sure that when you pull (and you will pull with 24k (R) PM) you can survive a couple hits. I have a few extra pieces of gear and jewelry that I keep in my inventory at all times. I do this so I can give myself options. High DPS/Lower survivability, a balanced ratio, or high survivability/lower DPS. I always believe in giving yourself options on the fly, so you don't have to retrait for every boss, you can simply switch some gear out.

Good figures for Finesse over 4000 for the 6 mans, and 4500+ for the 12 man. I run with 4250 Finesse and have had no problems. When I notice bosses resisting my attacks more than usual, I start throwing the skill Hunters Art into my rotation and that fixes it every time.
As for (R) PM, you want at least 18000 for the 6 mans. With my gear options I can go as high as 22000 (cappy buffed more like 23500) but my morale takes a big hit dropping down to 6000 unbuffed. There are bosses in the Isen. 6 man that have crit. me for over 5000-6000, so with that set up I am looking at a one-shot. With high morale set up (7300 unbuffed) my (R) PM drops to 17400. My mid build is 6900 morale, 20100 (R) PM.

A comment about balancing and B/P/E. As I stated before, I believe in options during combat. If you want to be truly balanced in survivability and DPS keep a close eye on your vitality, and get the Draigoch armour set (at least 4 pieces, the other 2 crafted of from 12 man-skirms) asap. My agility sits around 1600-1700 most of the time. My vitality is around 550-680. Both of those are dependent on what gear variation I use. With high agility your evade is very high, and parry is moderate. I have the swift stroke legacy to up those even further and almost max out my evade (21%) and get my parry up pretty high (18%).

Here are a few ideas for gearing. Get the new sets from Isengard (That will take an eternity sadly) or get the Draigoch gear which is not all that hard to obtain. Get the crafted gear when you can. Another thing that is very important is to get your rep up with the Dunlendings and the Theodreds Riders. The jewlery that they offer is quite good. Be sure you look at the prices and how each piece can help you in different circumstances. I have both the vitality and agility pieces.

(Side note. Don't hate on Fate! It helps ranged crit as well as ICPR. And everyone needs ranged crit.)

I hope this help. If there is anything else, don't hesitate to ask.

[Amalthalion]

Nice info.

What is teh Daigoch set? Is that the set you can get from the 'Adventurers Vendor' in Galtrev? Where you can buy 4 of the pieces for Medallions or Sigils and need the 2 special tokens for the Helm and Shouldger Guards? If so I am working on that. If not then I really do not get to 'Raid' enough to get anything else and the Kin Daigoch run happen during my Monday morning (right in my work time).

Any changes to Virtues? I have been changing them round a bit to get a bit more selective distribution.

Also you preference on items that give a bonus to Will vs those that just grant more Power? I tend to find I get better milage from the + power and target a moderate Will score rather than actually targetting a specificly higher Willpower score.

[Amalthalion]

My Legacies are Currently :

Ranged
Induction Power Cost
Focus Power Cost
Focus Critical
HS Damage
Burn Hot Damage

Melee
Crit Mag in Precision
AOE No Targets
Improved StrOE Moral Regen
Find the Path
Agility
Vitality

This was I used to have a real problem balancing my Power use. With the changes to skills over the last bit this is not as important any more and I am starting to look at building a new Bow and go for the Crit Bonuses.

Now I prefer Quick Shot over Barbed Arrow, as I did not think the bleed damage to be significant enough to bother with and a like the 30% + 1 focus given by QS. Could you tell me what the bleed damage you are getting from your Barbed Arrow so I can re-evaluate this.

Also do you know if Turbine has acually published the formula to workout your % chances from the 'Large number' figures. Trying to build a bit of a spreadsheet so I can look at the numbers.

[Marithil]

My virtues are almost always based on what I am running. If I need more defense, or DPS or power or whatever I have many different virtues I roll. My standard is:

Determination, Zeal, Valour, Loyalty, Innocence.

Those cover a fairly broad play style which is nice.

The Draigoch set does come the vendor in Galtrev and is possible to get solo, but it will take a long time.

I almost always pump straight power in instead of will. It is simple too much to spec for vitality, will and agility these days. You end up giving too much to one of them and lose your equilibrium.

As far as power consumption is concerned; Hunters have a great ability to get their own power back, or at least reduce it so as too keep from needed a pocket LM. Strength of the Earth, Press Onward, pots, high ICPR, (which with a decent amount of fate for ICPR and crit works well) and legacies are good restorative means of power and morale. Also just keep an eye on your skill rotation. If you are running out quickly, pull back on the DPS for a bit, or even run Endurance Stance for a bit. Stance swapping is not a bad thing.

Barbed Arrow Bleed... I like it a lot, especially in the moors. In long boss fights when you need to pull back on DPS for a spell I always pop one off so I can have a decent bleed, and lower my threat from damage by either holding off on other skills, or switching to Endurance. The Barbed Arrow tool tip says mine does 320ish (I think, it's at least over 300) and after resistances are added up it hits for roughly 260-280 a tic. I love those number. It's almost like an auto attack or even a Quick Shot while using no power to inflict the damage. I like the QS crit chance however with the new Improved QS. You can get luck and get 3 focus from one QS. So you can see why that legacy is a good one. I am currently running both. Also, the Barbed Arrow legacy goes up to 50% if I recall correctly. Or at least 45%.

As far as the formula goes, this site will explain it better than I can.

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Mechanics:Damage_Formula

If there is anything else, please let me know.

[Daefarod]

Now that RoR is out, I thought it might be time to resurrect this discussion..especially since I'd like some advice on configuring my shiny new level 85 2nd age bow.

I tend to configure my bows for pure DPS since I'm able to control my agro-grabbing in groups and agro while running solo isn't a concern. And power usually isn't an issue for me any more.

I also like to help tanks in a group by sinking in a Distracting Shot or two as interrupts or use Merciful Shot Cooldown to help with corruption control but I recognize my role as a hunter is DPS first and foremost.

So..

What combination of legacies would give a hunter the most bang for his buck in both PvM and PvP? I'm thinking the following:

Induction Critical Multiplier
Focus Critical Multiplier
Barbed Arrow Bleed
Quick Shot Critical Rating
Burn Hot Damage

Thoughts?

[Marithil]

I'm sorry it took me so long to respond to this. I started twice but could never find the time to finish.

First off let me say that since I have been so busy and there have been relatively few changes with the class I decided to fore go the hunter guide for this release, at least until they do the hunter update I have heard whisperings about for months. However I would be happy to give you my thoughts on any thing anyone needs regarding the hunter.

I have a fairly high physical mastery (PM) so I tend to set my bow up to aid in threat reduction. Since the change with Pen Shot a couple updates ago I have found that "Focus Bow" anything is very important, to this end I make sure that the focus bow legacies are on my bow. With the spamming of pen shot the FB crit/power cost/threat reduction are all very important. So if you have a high PM and tends to use power and pull aggro this is usually why. The QS crit is a very good thing to have, just use it to throw your extra points in. It is an excellent way to build up focus while in combat. You may also think about getting an agility legacy on there just to up your crit and PM.

I find that if I just buff my crit and PM I don't need the Burn Hot or HS damage legacies. I would recommend just buffing your overall damage and using group friendly legacies.

This is all based on PvE of course. For PvP I wouldn't change a thing, except switching out the QS crit for HS damage.

I hope this helps, if you have any other questions please let me know.